52/Countdown vs. Civil War (could be spoilers)

[The Disgruntled Poet]

I'd like to hear people's thoughts about both of these series (or crossovers, if you prefer.) I've read about the first third of 52 and all of Countdown so far, as well as most of the core Civil War books.

Both seem to be pretty well conceived and executed-- much cooler than the crossover events of my youth (at least all the ones following CRISIS and Secret Wars).

I feel that Civil War is actually a little bolder in its ideas-- taking Iron Man to his logical conclusion as an entitled technocrat and really re-shaping the Marvel U. Whereas the 52 changes seem primarily around continuity and the abstract structure of the uni-multi-verse. I heard some complaints that 52 got a little disjointed at the end..

Interested in all thoughts on all of this stuff.

[ShannonA]

Having read the first trade of 52 and 6 or 7 trades worth of Civil War I'd say that 52 is much better written. Thus far, it's been great. Contrariwise the main Civil Wars book was one of the worst trades I've bought in years*. It was a couple of big fights surrounded by stories that had their payoffs elsewhere. It also felt entirely disjointed. I suspect if I went back and read it again I'd still have troubles with figuring out all the comings and goings and who was with who.

The other problem that I have with Civil War is that it feels like the different authors were telling different stories. As far as I can tell Iron Man was supposed to be the big hero of the War and Captain America the misguided fool. But that's definitely not how they were present in every other comic. As a result the finale feels like a big anticlimax, with the bad guy winning and the good guy going down in defeat.

Big picture wise, I'd definitely agree that Civil War was a more interesting and fulfilling story. I'm amazed by the changes that were made at the end. I have no faith that they'll stick around, but if they do, they'll really setting up an interesting new universe.

--
* Though I thought the main Civil War trade was a huge waste, the JMS Spider-Man was one of the best books I've bought this year, and Front Line series was quite good too. The event set up interesting stories, but they weren't told in interesting ways through the main trade.

[David Wisdom]

I can't really comment on Civil War, as I've only read parts of it online (and the Photoshopped parodies), so the most I can say is, "Just because a given writer wants to explore certain themes doesn't necessarily mean they have the skill, nor that a given setting is the best place to do it."

I have all of 52, however, so I can discuss that. As a story, I think it's decent - nothing particularly groundbreaking, but a nice yarn. Six yarns, really, as it's more a weekly anthology than a single story.

I think that's where some of the later feeling of disconnect comes in - absent a few intersections here and there, the six main storylines really don't come together.* That, and there's a big shift in focus early on (though it's hard to place exactly when it occurs) as the series becomes less "look how the DCU changes over a year" and more "hey, these guys are having adventures, let's write about that". I think that makes it a lot better, although it did necessitate the rather lame World War III spin-off (seriously, unless you really want to read four issues of "why Martian Manhunter's wearing trousers now", skip it).

The storylines within 52 are of varying quality, but generally 52's low points qualify as "kind of boring, don't really care" as opposed to "this sucks" or "I can't believe someone was paid for this". There's one exception - the penultimate chapter of one storyline really doesn't make a lot of sense relative to the chapters before, but I really can't explain without spoiling it. Most of the story is good, although I think character interaction (the Question and Renee Montoya in particular) carries the series more than the actual plot.

ShannonA, how many issues are in the first trade? I don't want to spoil anything for you.



*with the possible exception of the Science Squad / Black Adam storylines, although I consider the former to be really more about Will Magnus than Teth-Adam.

[ShannonA]

ShannonA, how many issues are in the first trade? I don't want to spoil anything for you.


13. If you mark stuff beyond the trades with [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ], omitting the spaces, I'll be jake.

[David Wisdom]

13. If you mark stuff beyond the trades with [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ], omitting the spaces, I'll be jake.

Oh, sure, we can be logical with your "coding" and "spoiler tags", but what about the art? What about circuitous sentences carefully crafted to avoid giving away any relevant information and thus, of little qualitative value? What about the burlesque?

... I'm sorry, I'm not really sure where that last bit came from.

[The23SidedDie]

Oh, sure, we can be logical with your "coding" and "spoiler tags", but what about the art? What about circuitous sentences carefully crafted to avoid giving away any relevant information and thus, of little qualitative value? What about the burlesque?

... I'm sorry, I'm not really sure where that last bit came from.

I think it came from a little-known place called "Awesomelandia" :D